In 1998, Andrew Wakefield and 12 other co-investigators published a paper in the prestigious British medical journal, the Lancet, and asserted that the MMR vaccine was linked to autism. The small study of merely 12 children set off a national firestorm in the U.K. and suddenly thousands of British patients were refusing to vaccinate their children with the MMR vaccine which protects against measles, mumps and rubella.
MMR coverage rates dropped from 90% to 70% and in some parts of England, even to 50%. Outbreaks of measles began appearing across England, Scotland and Ireland. By 2003, scientists had concluded that the immunization rates in England were below the level necessary to provide “herd immunity”. In short, measles is at risk of becoming a common childhood illness once again.
Following Wakefield’s MMR study, the scientific community overwhelmingly responded. More than 25 studies in 5 countries were conducted looking at hundreds of thousands of children — both vaccinated and unvaccinated — and the results were the same each time. The MMR vaccine does not cause autism.
And earlier this month, more than 13 years after Wakefield’s original study, our nation’s foremost health and medical authority, the Institute of Medicine (IOM), added to the growing body of evidence that the MMR vaccine does not cause autism.
So now the question is — can we finally move on?
Can we accept that the MMR-autism link has been exhaustively studied and disproven?
Can we begin to focus our scientific energies on not only finding the true cause of autism but on discovering new vaccines that will save lives?
Can we accept the scientific truth that vaccines save millions of lives each year and are in fact, very safe?
To those who would continue to argue that there still isn’t enough research, I would ask, “when is enough, enough?”
How is one study of 12 children enough to convince you when more than 25 studies including hundreds of thousands of children aren’t?
While Wakefield’s study looked at only 12 children, one of the studies conducted in Denmark looked at more than 500,000 children including 100,000 who had not been vaccinated with MMR. The researchers found no association between vaccination and the development of autism.
Another study looked at more than 530,000 children and found no difference in the risk of autism between those who received the MMR vaccine and those who did not. Moreover, they found no relationship between the date of vaccination and the development of autism in the autistic children.
I could go on and on but the point is that the evidence is overwhelming. Hopefully, it is enough to provide reassurance to parents who may have the slightest doubt about the safety of the MMR vaccine.
Because at the end of the day, it is enough for me.
Great blog post, Rachel! Thank you for educating us on the safety and importance of the MMR vaccine.
That’s all fine and dandy, but parents also need to be educated about the adverse side of vaccines. Look at the VAERS reports. Look at the simple fact that there is a vaccine fund set up to compensate those who suffer vaccine injuries. Look at the fact that there is a 2006 DTaP product insert that says autism as one of the adverse affects. Look at the fact that the vaccine court has compensated almost 100 families for autism. YES, A-U-T-I-S-M. Vaccines don’t cause autism???? Why compensate for autism then? Too many unanswered questions about vaccines and many drugs in general. Parents have the right to hear both sides of the story before getting their kids vaccinated. This doctor will face absolutely no legal consequences or lawsuits even if she injected your child with the vaccine and you child suffered a severe adverse event. She is protected by the law and the government. What she does not realize is that she does have exposure on the medical malpractice front. She is providing a medical opinion and recommendation, without providing parents with the potential risks. If someone reads, this and gets their child vaccinated and that child suffers a vaccine injury, she is not protected. If doctors are going to provide their opinion, then they need to also provide info on the adverse effects. We are not talking 1 or 2 kids having problems. We are talking tens of thousands. Educate yourself before you Vax!
Any medical professional will tell you that as with any drug there are risks and side effects with vaccines; however, serious side effects are rare. VAERS is a passive surveillance system that anyone can report to. That includes physicians, nurses, parents, and patients. VAERS is used to track trends but the information reported to VAERS is completely voluntary and is often not investigated or confirmed as being a vaccine adverse event. Here is a link to an excellent website that explains the purpose and limitations of VAERS – http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/vaccine-safety/vaccine-adverse-event-reporting-system. And yes, the National Vaccine Compensation Injury Program (VICP) does compensate people who have met legal standards for vaccine injuries; however, those standards do not meet the standards of scientific causation. The VICP is a no-fault alternative to the traditional tort system so it is not akin to saying that vaccines cause autism. I disagree that there are too many unanswered questions about vaccines when more than 25 credible scientific studies have looked at just the MMR-autism link. There have been dozens of additional studies looking at whether vaccine ingredients, combinations of vaccines, and vaccines in general cause autism. In the IOM report that I mentioned in this blog, the committee looked at more than 1000 reports and studies. How is that not exhaustive? As you stated, we are here to provide our opinion about the potential adverse effects and it is impossible to minimize the possible adverse effect of not immunizing which is to say that if you choose not to immunize your child you put them at risk of dying from influenza, or losing their hearing from Hib meningitis, or losing a limb from meningococcal meningitis. At the end of the day, the benefits of vaccines outweigh all of the rumored and unvalidated side effects of vaccines. For more information on VAERS, the court rulings, and vaccine safety – please go to http://www.immunizationinfo.org.
The actual quote on the package insert is, “Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea ”
Note that word “reported.” Not proven, just reported. If you get enough reports you get an investigation and, if the reported adverse effects are proven, the vaccine is withdrawn.
The insert goes on to say, “Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or to establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine.”
Exactly. Since then no credible study has found evidence for a link between DTaP and autism.
Mr. Hutchins,
One of the reasons that some people haven’t moved on is the ongoing misinformation from the vaccine critics.
The facts are:
The DTaP insert does not list autism as a side-effect.
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM101580.pdf
The Supreme Court explicitly points out that all families can sue for alleged vaccine injuries.
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-152.pdf
The vaccine court rulings are posted on-line. They have never compensated a case for autism, a fact that has been pointed out many, many times.
http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/vaccine-programoffice-special-masters
The reality is that the vaccine critics can’t win in the court systems or the scientific/medical worlds because their arguments aren’t true.
W&N
Rachel, I appreciate the fact that you responded Robert and my tweets. Open and honest dialog will move the discussion forward. I was just wondering why you give Dr Wakefield so much credit? Of the 25,000 people that follow me on social media in the United States not one has said to me that Dr Wakefield was central in forming their opinions.
If we bottom line this discussion, We are both in the business of fighting for the health, wellfare, and well being of Children. I just do not understand why no major institution validates the concerns of parents who see ever rising rates of Autism, ADHD, Asthma, Allergies, Autoimmune disorders, Diabetes, Cancer, Obesity. leaving us with a population with the majority being sick. Basic science class gives pause for concern over the design of the IOM studies funding and questions ask. Experts agree, Even the fine print of studies mentioned, says more studies need to be done.
Respect for our opinion only comes when you address the needs of a population desperate for help. TannersDad Tim Welsh Autism and Children’s Health Advocate
Tim – I agree that we need to address the needs of children suffering autism. I actually feel quite passionately about finding the true cause of autism and furthering treatments. However, when a topic has been as exhaustively studied as the vaccines-autism topic and no association ever found then I believe it is our duty to move on and focus what little research funds we have on more productive studies. Regarding your belief that no major institution validates parents concerns on the various childhood health issues, I couldn’t disagree more. Institutions across the U.S. pour time, energy, and money into improving children’s health, including Texas Children’s. Every day I encounter physicians, scientists, researchers, nurses, and public health professionals who are committed to the children they work with and who spend their careers trying to serve children whether it be through research, treatment, preventative health, or any other aspect.
Rachel,
You seem very reasonable, and for that reason, thank you for allowing this discussion to take place without name calling or fear mongering. You have no idea how much that is appreciated. That said, I respectfully disagree with your assertion that vaccines have been “exhaustively studied” for their relationship to autism. The fact remains, only one injection, the MMR, and one ingredient, thimerosal, have been looked at. This is out of a vaccine schedule with more than 20 injections, and in some states, many more, and last count, over 5 dozen different ingredients. Furthermore, not one study exists on the safety of vaccines being given in combination. Given vaccines for children are almost exclusively given in combination, the entire US childhood recommended vaccination schedule is an experiment. It has never been studied for safety. Never, ever, ever, ever. Nowhere. Yes, the individual shots have been studied, but in regard to a child receiving a Hep B, DTaP, Polio, a Flu shot, and/or any other combination…which is the reality of a wellness visit for thousands of children every single day…this has never been studied. In fact, the CDC even states, “usually simultaneous vaccination is incompletely studied at the time of licensure.” How is a parent possibly expected to just trust this should be safe? No one knows! And given all of the different brands of vaccines, the possibilities of combinations are now infinite. This seems irresponsible at best, criminal at worst. Someone needs to honestly and openly acknowledge this. Finally, although thimerosal has been somewhat phased out of vaccines, it is still in many flu shots and in trace amounts in others. Those trace amounts are more than are what are allowed in drinking water. Not to mention, thimerosal has never been tested for safety; it was grandfathered into use because it existed prior to the FDA. All studies of it now are looking at populations retrospectively, rather than looking at what thimerosal actually does biologically in a lab. It’s mercury, and no matter what anyone says, there is no such thing as a safe amount. It accumulates in the body differently for everyone. Given it is ubiquitous in the environment, it is impossible to know what person or child carries what burden prior to being injected with what is perceived as a small amount more. Maybe that was just enough to tip them over the edge. And although everyone always focuses on Autism, multiple studies have now confirmed thimerosal is implicated in causing tics and speech delay. How many parents know that? How many parents are willing to give their child a tic to avoid the flu? Not many. Furthermore, mercury is hundreds of times more toxic than lead. I know not one person on this planet who would allow themselves to be injected with lead, regardless of epidemiological studies that tried to show it was safe. Common sense dictates otherwise, especially given 1 in 6 women of childbearing age is already mercury toxic (per the CDC). Thimerosal is a neurotoxin. It has to be treated as hazardous waste. The material safety data sheets all show this. They also show that it is never, ever, ever supposed to be combined with aluminum because of how highly reactive they are, and yet, multiple vaccines do just that, specifically the HepB vaccines. These are important, no wait, imperative questions that need to be answered. When is Thimerosal actually going to be tested by the FDA for safety? (All of the epidemiological studies being used as evidence are based on theoretical exposures. They assume that everyone got a uniform amount of it when the truth is, mercury is heavy. It sinks to the bottom of the vial. We have no idea exactly how much everyone gets in each shot, especially if a practitioner forgot to shake the vial before drawing the vaccine. Certainly that has happened.) When is the real world recommended vaccine schedule going to be studied as it is actually administered, and why aren’t doctors demanding that it is? Why is Thimerosal being combined with aluminum when it’s the one thing that it isn’t supposed to be combined with? Why don’t we have a retrospective study of the vaccinated versus never vaccinated at this point to determine once and for all what the true health outcome differences are? It is not unethical to examine the health outcomes of children who are already alive. At this point, it’s unethical not to. (I’m not talking about a double blind placebo study, which many feel is unethical. Let’s look at the kids who are already here.) I could go on, but I can promise you that unless and until these questions are answered and studied by independent scientists not affiliated with pharma or the government, this issue will never go away. No one wants to see an increase of preventable infectious disease. No one. But no one wants lifelong chronic disease to be the cost for that. It’s beyond time to examine what unintended consequences we may have caused, with truly exhaustive vaccine safety science. It troubles me deeply that far too many people don’t seem to care what it would say, and even worse, don’t even want to know. Thanks again for allowing this important discussion.
Ms Obradovic,
The essence of running an international, multimillion dollar healthcare scam is lying to people.
It is for very good reasons that US civil courts have suggested that those that claim vaccines cause autism are simply lying for money.
On-line you can easily find:
Data on all the standard childhood vaccines and autism risk.
Safety data on giving vaccines in combination.
Safety data on the entire late 1990′s vaccine schedule–100% unvaccinated kids had the same risk for autism as vaccinated kids.
There is massive amounts of safety data on thimerosal.
Of course there is a safe level of mercury–otherwise it wouldn’t be safe to breath. You clearly don’t understand toxicology.
You also don’t understand chemistry. Mercury reacts vigorously with elemental aluminum not aluminum salts. No mercury doesn’t sink to the bottom of the vial.
As stated above there is data on unvaccinated kids showing that vaccines don’t increase risk of autism. And we have many years of statisticians pointing out that the study you suggest will give false results and we have the attempt by GenerationRescue to do the study anyway. If you look at GenerationRescue actual data you will see that they found autism was more common in unvaccinated kids vs. vaccinated.
If you do take the time to fact-check, you will learn that vaccines don’t cause autism and in fact we moved onto criminal proceedings against those that are profiting from this falsehood.
I am sure that before you comment you will take the time to look for data on vaccines other than MMR and trace through the obvious dishonesty of those that deceived you with this nonsense.
W&N
W&N
I make it a policy never to engage with those who fail to use their real name, but seeing as you raise some interesting points, I’ll bite. In short, we’ll disagree about the safety of mercury for humans. It isn’t safe, ever, second only in toxicity to plutonium. Specifically, we’re talking about ethyl mercury, a man made version of it that was created in a lab looking to use it as a chemical weapon back in the early 1900′s. Instead, it became a seed preservative, a lumber preservative, and a vaccine preservative. And we’re talking about injecting it directly into a person, a completely different exposure route than breathing it or eating it. It still has yet to ever be tested for safety by the FDA. That’s a fact. And given 1 in 6 women of child bearing age is mercury toxic, per the CDC, injecting them with more of it in a form that never was tested for safety is highly irresponsible, if not criminal itself (as long as you mention them). Additionally, you are wrong about the study of the recommended vaccination schedule for children as it is administered in a real world setting existing. It doesn’t. Nowhere has anyone ever studied the safety of giving a child 3,4,5, or more shots at once with all of the various combinations of vaccines that exist. They haven’t. If you can provide the link to the study, or even a name with authors/journal, if it exists as you say, it would be greatly appreciated. Upon reading it, if it says what you say, I will happily and immediately say I’m wrong. Cause the funny thing is, when you read these studies they say some pretty nutty things. Like thimerosal is neuro-protective, something a recent study had to disclaim “we have no biological reason for this result”. Hmmm? No reason why mercury would show up as being good for a child? Preventative against autism and other outcomes? Pretty indicative of a bad study if you ask me. Kind of like the other ones that show it makes you smart. That one was from Britain. In 8 of 9 health outcomes they assessed, the more mercury kids got in their vaccines, the healthier they were. Great! More mercury for everyone! Also, the Generation Rescue study did not find unvaccinated children had higher rates of autism than not. And it wasn’t a study. It was a phone survey meant to mimic the CDC’s process of determining prevalence. Finally, as for mercury being combined with aluminum, the material safety data sheets do not specify. They simply say aluminum. I’m sure you’ll tell me why I am misinformed again, deceived I think you said, so I respectfully agree to disagree with you on these main points and let you have the last word:
The vaccine schedule has never been tested for safety with regard to the real world setting in which it is administered. Mercury is dangerous for humans in all forms. It is irresponsible to inject already toxic women with more of it. Thimerosal has never been tested for safety by the FDA. Studying the vaccinated versus never vaccinated for different health outcomes is not only possible, but necessary. Anything less is unacceptable.
I emailed a copy of your comment to Generation Rescue to see what they say about the study that you are referring to. By the way, not using your real name is called not having any balls. I read the post below by whiteandnotnerdy and hopefully who ever is posting under that name will find out info on you and out you! Like to see who you are and what your affiliation is. I have seen you on other articles before and I know who you seem to follow.
Julie:
This guy is everywhere and he spins crap in the form of half truths. Like I say, I hope someone finds out his connections and outs him. Maybe he will stop with his crap! And the bottom line to everything is post the damn adverse events with every freaking article about vaccines and let each parent decide. When W&N and everyone else goes through such great lengths to promote vaccines and doesn’t provide the potential risks, then it looks like they have something to hide. Whether they do or not! science is science but science is very dangerous when it is tainted by monetary interests.
Ms Obradovic,
Clearly I was mistaken–you didn’t bother to look for studies that checked other vaccines and the risk of autism before replying. Too bad, since if you did fact-check you would find the truth.
Here is a good starting point: http://www.nih.go.jp/JJID/56/114.pdf
You will notice that this was published in 2003 and there is data for the risk of autism and the following vaccines:
MMR,
monovalent measles,
monovalent mumps,
monovalent rubella,
chickenpox,
polio,
DTP,
DT,
TB,
and Japanese Encephalitis.
See tables 3 and 4 for a summary.
I post this example since (i) the full text is on-line and thus you can know for certain this data exists, (ii) I have personally and publicly given this example to the author of the14studies site–but author is not honest enough to correct the misinformation on the site.
Bottom line is that if you go line by line through 14studies fact-checking, you find that their arguments are not just wrong they are utter BS.
The reality is that all you have done here is repeat vaccine critics assertions.
Fact checking would mean you going to the FDA site and finding examples like:
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM142288.pdf
“In clinical trials, RotaTeq was administered concomitantly with diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis (DTaP), inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV), H. influenzae type b conjugate (Hib), hepatitis B vaccine, and pneumococcal conjugate vaccine. [see Clinical Studies (14)]. The safety data available are in the ADVERSE REACTIONS section [see Adverse Reactions (6.1)]. ”
The criticism that ” Furthermore, not one study exists on the safety of vaccines being given in combination” is an outright and absurdly stupid fabrication which you can easily see is false.
Fact-checking would mean you looking at the actual data from GenerationRescue:
http://drtenpenny.com/Documents/gr_survey.pdf
You will notice that when you go to the end where the data is for all the children: unvaccinated kids with an ASD 4%,
fully/partially vaccinated kids with and ASD 3%
At this point is must be clear to you both that the vaccine critics claim things that simply aren’t true and that if you look at the facts you can easily see that they aren’t true.
If you do care enough to check, statisticians will explain why your suggested vacc vs unvacc won’t work. And you can look up on-line “confidence intervals” and see how your comments about thimerosal being neuro-protective simply demonstrate that you don’t understand the data.
And toxicologists can explain how your comments on thimerosal/mercury are completely wrong. You can easily find the safe level of mercury on-line and again since every single breath you take has mercury the assertion that there is no safe level of mercury has to wrong. And you can easily refresh your high-school chemistry and see how important the difference between elemental aluminum and aluminum salts are.
And you can read at the FDA site where they explain what they do–of course they haven’t been doing tox studies on thimerosal, that isn’t there job. You can also find a few of the safety studies on thimerosal listed there.
Your comments about 1 in 6 women being mercury toxic are completely wrong, and the study (Mahaffey et al) is from the EPA not the CDC. Want to actually read it?
If you do feel like actually learning the facts I can also link you to a study that looked at 110,000 US kids in the real world and where it very clear, simple basic English they explain that there data showed that 100% unvaccinated kids had the same risk for autism as unvaccinated. And you can even trace how these facts have been systematically misrepresented by the vaccine critics.
Or you might prefer to read the US Civil court rulings–that all the vaccines cause autism arguments are junk science and those that advocate them have been characterized as lying for money–and see how the vaccine critics deal with this by lying and claiming that in the US one can’t sue vaccine manufacturers.
We can keep going for a very long time if you are willing to look at the actual facts.
W&N
Person who posts under the handle ” Robert Hutchins”
Anyone can post here under any “name”. It is impossible for any of us to know who you are. For all we know, you could be a Korean woman.
(1) Your criticism of someone not using their real name is, even by the low standards of the anti-vaccs, of staggering stupidity.
(2) There is an example below where someone threatens me. This is no surprise since in order to protect their multimillion dollar scam the anti-vaccs have threatened scientists, journalists, and bloggers with:
Bogus legal actions,
Attacks on their employment,
Murder,
Murder of their children.
Given this long history, it is perfectly rational for a sane person to want to remain anonymous.
Sadly some anti-vaccs are so morally twisted they won’t even condemn death threats on someone’s children.
W&N
Mr. Hutchins,
Correction: I always recommend that parents fact- check.
You understand what that means right?
One would read the Supreme Court ruling and see how the anti-vaccs are lying when they say you can’t sue for vaccine injuries.
One would read the vaccine court rulings and see that the anti-vaccs are lying when they say that cases have been compensated for vaccines causing autism.
One would read the DTaP insert and see that the anti-vaccs are lying when they say that autism is listed as a side-effect caused by the vaccine.
The real bottom line is that unable or unwilling to offer an argument that is even functionally literate, you are reduced to name calling.
You might want to change strategies and try offering a rational argument to support your POV–of course that require you to have something rational to offer.
W&N
Tim,
Wakefield is important because he was the first to grab the headlines with claims that the MMR vaccine should be replaced with single shots because of the link with autism. He did this at a headline grabbing press conference that was supposed to reassure the public about the safety of MMR in the wake of the now discredited Lancet paper of which he was the lead author.
When he moved to the USA to take charge of the Thoughtful House Clinic in Texas he was accorded celebrity status by supporters of the vaccine/autism hypothesis. He has enjoyed the support of TACA, Generation Rescue, Age of Autism, Safeminds, NAA and was a headline speaker at this year’s Autism One conference.
If Wakefield is such an insignificant figure perhaps Tim will explain why his book, Callous Disregard features on Tim’s Facebook page and Andrew Wakefield is listed as one of the “people who inspires Timothy.” Do Tim and the other anti-vaccine commenters here now agree that Wakefield breached research ethics and falsified some of his results? Do they accept that other researches have failed to find evidence to support Wakefield’s proposed autistic enterocolitis and the link between this and the MMR vaccine? But if they still support Wakefield in the face of all the evidence they should say so.
My 2 cents.
Wakefield is important because even in the light of obvious and gross fraud, not to mention catastrophic damage to people with autism, the vaccine critics still support Wakefield and often (and we can see posted here) try to deceive people about the facts.
So the Wakefield saga is helpful in that belies any claim by the vaccine critics that they are sincerely interested in the children.
W&N
Rachel:
If there were no legitimate vaccine injuries, there would be no need for VAERS and the Vaccine injury court. And the vaccine injury court is not a no fault system, even though it was supposed to be. It has become very adversarial. A true no fault scheme is similar to a Texas auto insurance policy, where you report your claim and are compensated. Sure you can argue the amount of compensation, but you are compensated. The vaccine court has become a system of the government going so far as to call expert witnesses. It is more of an Administrative proceeding than a no fault system. I am an insurance guy and to be quite honest, the simple fact that there is a vaccine court in the first place is indicative that someone knows something that would give such cause for alarm that such a system would be put in place. Look at the B.P. blowout and the BP Settlement fund. Set up to ensure enough money banked because of the expected amount of damage that was caused and the amount of claims that would be submitted. Same with the vaccines. If you put a large number of these cases in front of a jury, I would expect to see 3-4 times the amount of money awarded by the vaccine injury fund. What needs to happen is number 1, conduct tests for autism and other serious health problems of vaxxed versus unvaxxed. Number 2, take away the vaccine injury fund and let a jury decide the fate and award of each case. Make the pharmaceutical companies as well as the doctor giving the injection legally responsible. I bet you would see a decrease in the push for getting vaccinated and the truth would also start coming out about the seriousness of their effects. Look, in an insurance claim, when taking a statement, all adjusters are taught that if you do not know the answer to a question, don’t ask it or if you know the answer and it will hurt your case, you don’t put it on the tape. That is the problem here with vaccines. Either the vaccine makers know the truth and avoid certain studies or they have absolutely no clue what the results will be, but have suspicions so they avoid certain studies. Money and conflicts of interests are another problem. All of the studies in some form or another have a link to drug maker money or people. You want to talk about science and medical, answer this question. One MRI film, two different doctors. 1 insurance doctor and 1 plaintiff attorney doctor. Plaintiff’s doctor says bulging disc. Insurance company doctor says no bulge. How is that? Exact same film and only one film. I have seen this scenario played out more than once. The perfect example of how science is tainted by money and opinions. Flu vaccines – I never used to get them and never got sick. For 3-4 years in a row, I started getting them. Every year, soon after, I got sick. After that, I stopped getting them again and stopped getting sick. From what medical people told me, there was really nothing that should have made me get flu like symptoms. That’s the problem. Either they did not work and I actually got the flu or they caused me to get sick. Just because science says something, does not mean it is always true for every single person. The fact of the matter is, I got sick. No one can argue that fact. Just like many parents who witness there children deteriorate, after getting the vaccines. Scientists may say science says there is no link, but you can not argue with this many people who are essentially witnesses. That’s why parents need to be taken more seriously. You can’t fake a vaccine adverse affect. Like I said, to completely prove the safety of vaccines, more research needs to be done and I think that the one size fits all mentality needs to be dropped and parents need to be educated as opposed to having this shoved down their throats. I know people in the pharmaceutical industry and find it interesting as to how many actually get exemptions for their kids.
Robert – obviously we are not going to agree and that’s okay. There isn’t enough time or space on this blog for me to address all of your points and I’m not likely to change your mind nor are you likely to change mine. I’ve written this blog because I’ve met numerous families who have lost their children or seen their children suffer from a vaccine-preventable disease. Just as you are passionate for your cause so I am for mine. As I’ve said before there have been dozens of studies looking at vaccines and autism and all of them have come to the same conclusion. The study you are suggesting – comparing unvaccinated to vaccinated children prospectively – would be completely unethical and no IRB would ever approve it. Fundamentally, there seems to be some misunderstanding in how science works and until those basic scientific principles are understood I don’t think we’ll find agreement. Thank you for reading my blog and sharing your thoughts.
Thank you, Rachel!
Mr. Hutchins,
Are you truly unaware that the US is unusually litigious?
If you were to check, you would find that in the US vaccine manufacturers were losing lawsuits based on the remarkable legal argument of “liability without fault”.
Which is why in the US we have the vaccine court. How many other countries have something like this? Would that be zero?
More to the point there are a number of cases that claim vaccines/thimersoal cause autism have been heard by US Civil courts–not the vaccine court.
I can’t find a single vaccine critic with the integrity to post these decisions. Can you?
Thanks,
W&N
W&N In response to your post about being able to sue the vaccine makers.
U.S. Supreme Court Says ‘No Lawsuits for Vaccine Injuries’
On Tuesday, February 22, 2011, in Bruesewitz v. Wyeth, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that parents of children injured by routine vaccines cannot sue the vaccine manufacturer in court for alleged drug design defects.In the case, Hannah Bruesewitz’s parents alleged that Hannah suffered from seizures and developmental delays due to a routine childhood vaccine. The Bruesewitz family first filed a claim using the no-fault compensation system set up by Congress in the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (NCVIA). Under the NCVIA, the families of childhood victims of vaccine injuries can get compensation for those injuries by filing a claim with the U.S. Court of Federal Claims. (To learn more about the vaccine compensation system set up by the NCVIA, see Nolo’s article Vaccine Injuries: The Federal Compensation Program.) When the claims court denied the Bruesewitz family’s claim, the family sued the vaccine manufacturer, Wyeth, in federal court alleging that the vaccine Hannah received was defectively designed.In the 6-2 decision (Justices Sotomayor and Ginsburg dissented), the Supreme Court ruled that the NCVIA compensation system preempted (precluded) parents from bringing design defect claims against vaccine manufacturers in court. To find otherwise, reasoned the Court, could potentially wipe out the vaccine industry.The American Academy of Pediatrics applauded the decision as upholding the vital vaccine industry.You can read the full decision in Nolo’s Supreme Court Center: Bruesewitz v. Wyeth. And for more information check out Nolo’s Personal Injury Blog post Vaccine Makers Immunized Against Many Suits, Top Court Says.Effective Date: February 22, 2011This update affects these Nolo products:
Mr. Hutchins,
First you didn’t deal with the US legal issues.
Secondly you avoid what the court ruling said.
I have posted the ruling above. Yes, the design defect argument is banned. This doesn’t change the fact that the court clearly states that all US families can sue for alleged vaccine injuries. They can use all other legal arguments other than design defect.
W&N
W&N – I verified Hutchins post below. Your claim about suing the vaccine makers being allowed is total B.S. In my world, this makes you a liar, son. You will be exposed soon enough. Keep up your work because you are a poor liar and the facts are there to disprove the majority of your comments. It just makes the vaccine defenders’ credibility look even that much more poor.
I am going to have some of my staff monitor you and your posts wherever you go. You need to get a new game on and quit posting lies.
I have posted above a link to the actual Supreme Court decision exactly so that anyone that cares about the facts can read them for themselves.
I don’t know, and I don’t really care, if your problem is intellectual–that is to say you are simply too stupid to read the decision.
Or if your problem is one of integrity–that is to say that you are outright lying.
But I do know that anyone with integrity and a middle-school education will read the decision and see that you are wrong.
And I am sure that I want you to keep posting is often as you possibly can. There is nothing I can post that does a better job of destroying the anti-vaccs as effectively as your posts.
Thanks,
W&N
A recent investigative report on HDNet TV exposed the fact that while health officials continue to tell us studies show no link, the federal government has paid out millions of dollars for compensation for vaccine injuries that included autism. Seeing these children who were born healthy and were suddenly and dramatically affected by their vaccinations should give us all pause. The U.S. Vaccine Court has paid out over $2 billion for severe injuries, including death over the two 20 years. We are now learning that the Court has recognized autism as part of the damage.
http://www.ebcala.org/areas-of-law/vaccine-law/watch-hdnet-world-report-vaccines-autism-mixed-signals
http://www.ebcala.org/news/video
SEE FOX News May 10, 2011 http://video.foxnews.com/v/4687300/law-school-links-autism-vaccines-in-report
SEE My FOX Boston, May 11, 2011 http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/morning/vaccine-autism-link-new-investigation-20110511
Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism
I guess this shouldn’t be a surprise.
Having their fraud, junk-science, and legal misconduct exposed, the vaccine cause autism scam have been run out of the legal and scientific worlds.
About the only way left to squeeze money out of parents is exploit the ignorance of the naive media.
Good news: all it takes is functional literacy and the integrity to look to see that the court has never recognized autism as a side, it hasn’t paid out over $2billion for vaccine injuries, and how the anti-vaccs have tried to deceive parents into believing that health children suddenly became autistic after vaccination.
Just the same old factually incorrect garbage recycled again and again for their personal profits.
W&N
WhiteandNerdy, as much as I admire you, I think you’ve made an error. You wrote, “it hasn’t paid out over $2billion for vaccine injuries.”
Consulting http://hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/statisticsreports.html#Stats : Yes, payout have been over $2 billion, $2,097,437,850.05 to be exact.
WOW! That sounds terrible, doesn’t it? But to put it in perspective — those are ALL the payments from 1989 to the present.
Exactly 2,713 cases have been awarded in the 22 years since the program started. The award numbers have to be put into perspective –how many doses of all vaccines — pediatric and adult — have been administered in the US? I’ve never been able to find an answer for that. The best I’ve seen has been an estimate. I’d be grateful if someone could.
And the $2 billion divided by the number of awards is about $800,000 per award. That’s a lot of money in any case but not so much when you are talking about funding lifetime care for someone.
At any rate, waving one’s hands about $WHOLELOTTAMONEY without quantifying the number of awards, or the the time frame, or any other framing figure is …. not very helpful.
The
Hi AnnieG,
There are two parts to this issue. You have posted the math behind the $2billion figure.
The other side of the issue is when do people get compensated?
If you read the rules you will find a long list of “table injuries” where basically speaking if your kids has the symptoms, in the defined time period, you win compensation.
There are many, many different potential causes for these symptoms–but under the Vaccine Act the vaccine is PRESUMED to have caused the symptoms and you get compensated.
Clearly many of these table injury cases were compensated when the vaccine had nothing to do with the symptoms.
Or in non-table injury cases, in order to win compensation one needs:
“1) a medical THEORY causally connecting the vaccination and the injury; (2) a logical sequence of cause and effect showing that the vaccination was the reason for the injury; and (3) a showing of a proximate temporal relationship between vaccination and injury.”
This is a very low standard to meet that triggers compensation.
So the short answer is…it is entirely wrong to argue that a compensated case means there was an actual vaccine injury.
There is no way to know how many compensated cases are actual vaccine injuries, but it is probably only a tiny %.
Cheers,
W&N
The truth is Wakefield, a British gastroenterologist, wrote a paper, not a study, about a novel form of bowel disease he observed in 12 children who had developed this condition along with autism after receiving the MMR vaccine. It was their parents who came to him for help. It was the parents who said these children became sick after the MMR. To hear their story, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id_AxZ3zHAc. Wakefield simply asked for more research on the possible connection.
Those criticizing Wakefield never mention that the British government indemnified the manufacturer of the MMR. The government will be liable for the damages if it’s recognized that this vaccine triggers autism. Lots of people have everything at stake in this issue.
To listen to Wakefield’s side in this debate, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pizs-RcrZJU .
Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism
A simple lesson on epidemiology. When you take the odds of people with autism of being vaccinated and divide it by the odds of people without autism of also being vaccinated, you see that the two odds are statistically indifferent from each other. That is, the Odds Ratio is about 1.0. It may be higher than 1.0 in one study and lower than 1.0 in another study, but, on the average and in the long run, (if the studies are replicated over and over as anti-vaccine advocates keep asking) the odds ratio hovers around 1.0 and never really goes higher. This is from all the case-control studies that have been asked for and done.
The only study that is stronger in validity and statistical power than a case-control study is a randomized clinical trial. In such a trial, you would take children without autism and randomly split them into two groups. One group would be given vaccines and the other wouldn’t. This poses ethical risks because you cannot ethically deny a vaccine from a child because the overwhelming evidence points to the safety and reliability of vaccines. Anti-vaccine advocates have states that there are plenty of unvaccinated children to serve as controls, but that is not good enough because the “randomized” part of the study would be thrown out the window if we choose who is a control (or an exposed).
In the same hierarchy of studies as they relate to validity and reproducibility, surveys are at the bottom of the pile. This is because subjects are self-chosen to go to the survey. For example, a survey posted on the Age of Autism blog will have more respondents who are unvaccinated or against vaccines by the very nature of the readership of that blog. The same goes for a survey posted on the CDC website. In that case, the respondents would most likely be pro-science.
What Wakefield did was not even close to a survey. He didn’t randomly choose the children he was going to study. He didn’t match them with other random controls. He didn’t submit his findings in full for peer review. And, as we know now, even went as far as draw improper conclusions from his study.
Anti-vaccine advocates will call for patients to be educated before they make up their mind about denying their children a health-protecting, possibly life-saving vaccine. That’s all fine and good… What doesn’t sit well is that they – the anti-vaccine advocates – never call for parents to learn about odds ratios, study validity, and simple statistics. I don’t blame them, though… Doing so would reveal the bias toward misinformation and untruths that anti-vaccine advocates have shown.
One last thing… If you are not anti-vaccine, then please tell us all what vaccines you do recommend, if any.
Reuben:
You can throw statistics out all you want. Everyone knows that vaccines do not cause autism in every single child or else we would have every child that received vaccines as an autistic person. Autism aside, let’s get the medical field, science and vaccine makers to promote legislation that requires that the full spectrum of adverse events be discussed prior to a doctor giving a vaccine. Why not also take away the shield that is the vaccine injury court and like every other business in the U.S. let the vaccine makers and doctors fend for themselves on defending the lawsuits for each and every vaccine injury. I am an insurance guy, so don’t tell me that you would have too many people claim vaccine injuries who were not really injured. That argument absolutely does not fly! May happen to where a few try to work the system, but not enough to say that all of the vaccine injury reports are lies. I also have many friends in the pharmaceutical industry. ALL of them have their vaccine exemptions for their kids. They say no way they would take the risk, so there is something there. For me, there are too many inconsistencies. Even the IOM didn’t get all the cases studied. Out of 158, I think that they only were able to study 23, so that means 135 were not able to be studied. UCLA and Harvard question the IOM’s latest report. The biggest thing for me is that I know how science and medicine work when there is money involved. I see it every day in one fashion or another. And the simple fact is some things happen, whether science says it is possible or not. Science is not always cutting edge, especially in the US or we would not be so lacking in the mortality rate compared to others. Our kids are just as sick as kids in many third world countries. Science has no answer, but it is happening.
The gambit that all doctors avoid vaccines because they know better has now mutated into the gambit that those “in the know” avoid vaccines because of the risk. This to make anti-vaccine advocates seem reasonable. After all, doctors and people “in the know” are reasonable and are avoiding vaccines like the plague, so they must be on to something. Of course, it is a well-known social phenomenon that our friends are like us, so it should not surprise us that the friends of an anti-vaccine person would also not vaccinate, regardless of their profession.
It is specially humorous to me that the same anti-vaccine advocates who abhor the idea of the government telling them what to do with regards to vaccination look to the government for yet another law that intrudes in the provider-patient relationship. This is yet another classic example of the anti-vaccine groups and their members moving the goalposts.
Finally, with respects to all those hundreds of cases claiming vaccine injuries, anti-vaccine advocates do not speak of the denominator in that fraction. For all the hundreds of injuries, how many non-events are there? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? They won’t give us that answer because, again, it would undermine their main message that vaccines are the worst thing ever.
Once again, the truth is that vaccine manufacturers/administrators have had to defend themselves in Civil courts.
Why don’t the vaccine critics acknowledge the truth and post the decisions?
I mean other than the facts that all the vaccines cause autism arguments have failed the Daubert standard (i.e. are junk science) and the courts have even suggested that those advocating these arguments are lying to get money.
Where or where is a vaccine critic with the integrity to post these decisions?
W&N
Wakefield’s Lancet publication is a case-study.
It is shameful how AoA continues to abuse all families affected by autism with continued misinformation and transparent attempts to hide Wakefield’s fraud.
W&N
Parents need to educate themselves. See the book, Vaccine Epidemic http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Epidemic-Corporate-Coercive-Government/dp/1616082720 and the National Vaccine Information Center http://www.nvic.org/.
Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism
Why didn’t you post that Ms Fischer–who runs NVIC–sued, and lost, when scientists called her a liar about vaccines?
I think more and more parents are getting educated. They fact-check and find that NVIC and the Vaccine Epidemic book are $elling arguments that simply aren’t true.
W&N
Thank you white and nerdy for showing us all that this medical institution needs people like you to try and validate their position. I was reading this and honestly, was considering making a healthy contribution to Texas Children’s Hospital for research, etc. But just seeing what lengths you are going through to try and scare others who have witnessed bad things happen to their children after vaccines, just totally offends me. It also makes me wonder if Texas Children’s Hospital has any kind of affiliation with you. And to Texas Children’s Hospital – You need to post both the positives and adverse events to vaccines. Anything that is one sided, like this, is questionable at best. Help kids and quit getting in the middle of the controversy. Like I said, I was considering a healthy donation, but now I am seriously questioning the motives here.
You also need to go do lots of research yourself, because you have no idea of what people should or should not face criminal charges for nor any clue as to what a criminal charge consists of. I do! I am going to do some checking on you. Have a few people who know how to trace people on the internet, so we will see who is behind whiteandnerdy and what the connection is to the pharmaceutical industry. Definitely appears to be one!
Sincerely,
White and Definitely NOT Nerdy
Thanks for the very helpful and revealing set of postings.
You demonstrate that the anti-vaccs are both intellectually and morally bankrupt.
No surprise I suppose, since it apparently exceeds your cognitive abilities to figure out that publically threatening a person results in the 99.9+% of parents that care about the truth to hold you in contempt.
Meanwhile these same parents are willing to read the actual legal cases and ask: is there not single vaccine critic with the basic integrity post the cases?
Thanks again,
W&N
And that is why there are probably well into the millions of these parents getting vaccine exemptions? Do you know how we can get the numbers of vaccine exemptions for the United States. I would like to know how many kids exactly do not get vaccines and how many un-vaccinated children get such diseases as polio, mumps, measles etc. I would also like to know how many children who are vaccinated get these same diseases as well. Where are those numbers? I would also like to know how many U.S. Children die from chicken pox and measles versus how many get it and do not die. Let’s post those numbers as well.
Like I said, and this is the last I am going to even acknowledge you, if the safety and quality of the product speaks for itself, there is no need to constantly defend it. Just because an estimated number of childrens lives were saved by vaccines, how do we know it was just the vaccines or the vaccines at all that saved the lives? Science can not prove everything.
Thank you,
Big improvement, your posting was almost civil.
Each quarter NIS does a vaccine coverage survey. The results are published in MMWR–which are posted on the CDC site.
I don’t think the reasons for being unvaccinated is collected, but presumably the vast majority of unvaccinated kids are due to exceptions.
MMWR has lots of data on number of cases of disease, vaccination status, and deaths.
Are we suppose to be surprised that you are going to ignore people that understand how to analyze the data from MMWR?
Bottom line: yes the safety and efficacy of vaccines does speak for itself. Just as the lack of merit of the vaccine critics arguments speak for themselves. Which is why the critics are marginalized to the Net.
W&N
Anne Dachel has a little problem with accuracy.
“The truth is Wakefield, a British gastroenterologist, wrote a paper, not a study,”
It’s true that Wakefield et al. 1988 “Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific
colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children” — the abstract begins with “We investigated a consecutive series of children with chronic enterocolitis and regressive developmental disorder.” So a case series..
Dachel: “It was their parents who came to him for help.” No, Ms. Dachel, as you very well know, five of the eight patients in the Wakefield study were directed to Wakefield by an attorney, Richard Barr, who was forming a class-action suit, and had been paying Wakefield for several years.
Dachel “Wakefield simply asked for more research on the possible connection.” Yes, that’s how the study ended, but that’s not all that Wakefield did, as Dachel very well knows. He conducted an audacious press conference the day the study was released, emphasizing the connection between the MMR vaccine and autism, and continued to tout that claim in the mainstream media.
What Dachel doesn’t reveal: that Wakefield had taken out a patent on a product that was both meant as a measles vaccine and a treatment for bowel disease.
Anne Dachel is a spokesperson for a fringe anti-vaccine website, with ties to that titan of medicine, Jenny McCarthy. Dachel knows that most of what she writes is not true, but she doesn’t care. It’s her job to propagandize. The truth is not on her side.
The number of vaccine exemptions are though. This is only a small representation of those who question vaccines. The majority is out there getting their exemptions and keeping quiet about it.
AnnieG:
I really don’t think that Wakefield has much bearing on most people’s thoughts. He doesn’t on mine or any of the thousand of people that I know. I haven’t even read his stuff, so the people referring to Wakefield in every article that is written arguing that Wakefield is a fraud is nothing more than a HUGE waste of time, because he has no bearing on the fact that people see things for themselves. And you see a few of us here and there expressing our opinions about the safety of vaccines, but what you don’t see or hear from is all of those other millions of people who quietly get their vaccine exemptions and don’t say anything about it. And remember that, attorneys, medical staff, doctors, scientists, insurance professionals, pharmaceutical sales reps and many other fields are among those getting vaccine exemptions for their kids because they can see and they know the risks. And yes the risks are important because even though vaccines may not affect every child, it is like playing russian roulette as to whether or not a child will suffer a vaccine injury. People who worry about safety aren’t conspiracy theorists. I know there was not another sniper on the grassy knoll and I know that 911 was not set up by the US Government and I also know, now, that vaccines are not safe for every single child in every instance. Until both sides of the case are presented to parents, prior to the vaccinations, I am going to keep reiterating that fact. EVERY SINGLE CHILD in this world is important and they all need to be treated that way.
You say, “EVERY SINGLE CHILD in this world is important and they all need to be treated that way.” I agree. And there are a lot more children in the world today because of vaccines. Measles deaths in Africa fell by 91% between 2000 and 2006, from an estimated 396 000 to 36 000 because of a mass vaccination campaign.
And that is good and well, Mike, but what about the numbers of kids that did have an adverse reaction to vaccines. May have saved many, but in doing so killed or injured many as well. My point is that they are not safe for all and the ones who they are not safe for count as well. The latest IOM report even indicated that there are many kids who have adverse events due to their make up. If that is the case, make vaccines safe for them as well. We need a screening process before an injection. Your argument for them still leaves out many thousands of kids who suffer because of them. The numbers game does not fly anymore. Look how many kids are not vaccinated and not sick with polio, measles, etc. Myself included, the number of us on here presenting our opinions only accounts for probably less than a quarter of a percent of the number of parents who get vaccine exemptions for their kids. I have friends who are pharma reps and get exemptions for their kids. It’s more than 1 or 2 that I am talking about. I have thousands of medical contacts and I would say 75% of my contacts have never gotten their children vaccinated. I run across that with the majority of the attorneys that I have dealings with as well. None of them have gotten any of the diseases you refer to. I know that there is obviously that potential, but no one admits the potential risk of vaccines either and that is what gets my blood boiling.
I gave you a figure – 360,000 lives saved in Africa between 2000 and 2006. That is 360,000 children who would have died without the vaccine. What figures do you have for death and injured children in America from the vaccine over the same period? How does that compare to the death and injury from measles prior to the introduction of the vaccine. As we are broadly comparable in terms of lifestyle and quality of health care provision i would expect similar figures to those in the UK.
Convulsions – 1 in 200 measles: 1 in 1000 MMR
Meningitis/encephalitis – 1 in 2000 to 5000 measles: 1 in 1,000,000 MMR.
bleeding disorders – 1 in 3000 measles: 1 in 100,000 MMR
Severe allergic response – zero for measles: 1 in 100,000 MMR.
Death – 1 in 2,500 to 5,000 measles; Zero for MMR.
If you think that a child may be vulnerable to adverse reactions to the weakened form of measles in the vaccine think how vulnerable they would be to the full blown measles virus if it ever became endemic again.
Stanton: I would like to know where you are getting your figures from? I want to check these out. I still would like to know why vaccine defenders have to go through such great lengths to defend a product. If a product works, it works and it needs no defending. Do you know of anyone who can tell me where I can find statistics on how many vaccine exemptions are granted in the U.S. each year? I know you are in the UK, but since you are throwing out statistics, I am curious as to whether you might know or if you know someone who does. Seems like that number ought to be presented as well. If there are millions getting exemptions and none of them are getting the diseases that are mentioned through all of this chit chat, it only makes sense that the diseases are not as prevalent as they are being made out to be by those pushing the vaccines so heavily.
I don’t suppose you are willing to actually read the IOM report before commenting on it?
W&N
Mike: What is your connection to autism, if you don’t mind me asking?
Golly, Mike, if you can’t do a simple web search on “Mike Stanton” autism, what are your other research skills like?
A number of years ago, Stanton published “Learning to Live with High Functioning Autism”. I believe it was one of the first books on autism available in Spanish, as , Convivir con el Autismo.
He lives and works in the UK, where he teaches children with severe learning difficulties (US would say, intellectual disabilities) , many of whom are autistic.
He has a son, now an adult, with Asperger Syndrome. I am a member of the UK’s National Autistic Society.
Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones, AnnieG you could not figure out what the VSD was.
Sorry, that should have been, Golly, Robert
Many Mike Stanton’s on a google search. I can do much more than that, but I choose not to waste my time.
I checked also and there is more than just 1 Mike Stanton. He could also very easily answer my question, as opposed to you.
Or Robert could have clicked on Mike Stanton’s name, and found the website “Action for Autism”. Research is hard!
I do mind you asking, actually. If I am a parent does that make me more trustworthy than a professional? What if I am autistic? Or all three? If you think I am wrong, correct me. But do not question my right to contribute based on who I am.
In fact, Dr. Wakefield’s case study had very little to do with today’s parents who worry about vaccine safety. It’s the tens of thousands parents who saw(yes, saw) their normally developing children regress and become very ill following their vaccines that are the driving force behind(not ani-vaccine) but safe vaccines. For two decades the gov’t health agencies, drug companies and the AAP have been telling us they have absolutely no idea what is causing the autism ep[idemic(or the diabetes, asthma, food allergies epidemics) but they are sure that it is not vaccines. Come on—we are so tired of this mantra. Why doesn’t somebody read Wakefield’s book Callous Disregard, instead of being a mouth-piece for big pharma? for politicians? for the AAP?
I have news-we are NEVER going away until the epidemics are stopped, our children get well and are compensated by those who made them sick in the first place.
When is it enough to stop feeding the lies that vaccines are so wonderful, they save lives,they
rarely cause problems in our children?
I tell you–WE ARE HERE TO STAY.
Maurine Meleck SC
I thought vaccines had stopped the epidemics of smallpox, polio, diptheria, pertussis, measles, rubella, mumps, chicken pox etc. But you want to risk bringing all these back because you think that there are epidemics of autism, diabetes, asthma, food allergies that are caused by vaccines. Evidence please that these things are epidemics and that there is credible evidence that vaccines are to blame.
“Evan is my science!”
And for years people of integrity have been pointing out how the children were not normally developing and the anti-vaccs have actively tried to hide this fact.
And how dishonest people have tried to hide Wakefield’s fraud.
And how 40 years of results show that autism starts in utero.
But like people that think Elvis is still alive or that it is physically impossible for rockets to fly, once a person closes their mind and ignores the truth they will continue to be wrong forever.
Good news: the rest of society cares about our children. And the legal problems of the anti-vacss is looking pretty bad.
W&N
When you can be held legally accountable for giving bad medical advice that result in my boys becoming vaccine injured, then i will consider listening to you.
but currently you can lie with impuginity, call vaccine injury “rare,” which is a claim that is not scientifically supportable, and if my kids die, you are not even required to return my phone call.
Well, this is the problem with dishonest sites like adventuresinautism that claims you can’t sue for vaccine injuries.
Fortunately, I have posted above the Supreme Court ruling so we can all read see that the claim is an outright lie.
But then I suppose that once we discount everything on adventuresinautism that is a lie, or stupid, or both, there would be basically nothing left.
W&N
Whenever somebody lies about vaccines, Ginger Taylor collects a royalty.
Who is Ginger Taylor?
One of the more influential anti-vaccine people. She writes Adventures in Autism. I think she is trying to fill Jenny McWhooping Cough’s shoes.
I still find it very interesting that if the science backs up the arguments for vaccines, that so many people have to start throwing out statistics and try to defend the science. Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Audi, they all have their naysayers, yet they don’t have to defend their product whether it’s performance, safety, etc. People just know that they are quality rides, especially the Audi R8. I own one and it is a very nice ride. As many articles that there are about vaccine safety out there, if people still have to defend the product, then something is wrong with the product. And the author of this article really looks ridiculous now because it makes it appear as though her article can not stand on its own merit without others defending it! I was showing this article to some of my colleagues and they were saying that she has probably lost quite a bit of credibility and so has Texas Children’s Hospital.
I have been doing lots of research today on this issue. To me it seems as though there is definitely legitimate concern over vaccine safety. What the medical and science communities do not tell people and try so ever increasingly hard to defend is a sign of the safety issues. I watch all the vaccine defenders on here and other articles and it is a joke.
Vaccines are safe? Why the vaccine injury court? Why are the drug makers and doctors protected? I know alot about certain types of funds being set up to compensate victims. It is all due to the expected numbers of injuries or in other cases, environmental damage, etc. The expected numbers are projected based on risks. You have to know that something is fundamentally flawed in the first place to start setting up compensation funds. Also, the fact that many of those arguing for vaccines will use the argument that an un-vaccinated child is putting other children at risk. First of all, from what my medical people have told me, there is no reason to worry about being at risk by an un-vaccinated child, unless the vaccines don’t work the way they are advertised to work, in the first place. I also have a group that has done some research and far fewer children suffer serious illness or death in the United states, who are not vaccinated and actually contract a disease such as measles or mumps, chicken pox, etc than the number of vaccine injuries. I have been told that kids with immune deficiency problems are succeptable, but the number is low and they have auto immune problems and would be succeptable no matter what. I am not saying that they are not important, just because the numbers are low, I am just pointing out that vaccine defenders try to play the low numbers game against those who suffer vaccine injury, by citing for the greater good, and then turn around and say there are kids with auto immune problems, when people bring up the fact that if vaccines worked there would be no reason to worry about the un-vaxxed. Myself, all my kids were vaccinated and no apparent problems, but I know many who have problems and have watched friends who had normal kids, actually regress. If I knew then, what I know now, I would definitely question the safety of the vaccines and have long hard thoughts about getting my kids vaccinated. Honestly, I probably would not do it. And in my current line of business, I have run across hundreds of pharma reps as well as doctors and other important business leaders and all of them have or had gotten exemptions from their states and did not get their kids vaccinated. None of their kids have had any problems due to not being vaccinated.
Anyway, the government, medical officials and the pharmaceutical industry really need to come up with a better plan or maybe we need to start talking to our state reps to get a plan in place for them to where both sides of the vaccine questions are presented by the doctor to the parents so we have informed consent and if not and something happens, then both are responsible directly. And trust me people, these arguments are not based on true science! When money is involved, people will be biased in whatever they do. And that is something I know alot about! If someone has something detrimental to say, enough money will make those thoughts or results get lost in the wind! I know!!!!
“I know alot about certain types of funds being set up to compensate victims. ”
Do you know that “alot” is not a real word?
And even more people coming out in defense of Ms. Rachel Cunningham and vaccines. Even more evidence that science can not stand on its own. And another reason, I have totally reconsidered my thoughts about my donation to Texas Children’s Hospital. If a product works and has no adverse events, then there is NO need to defend the product. This has convinced me that there is a definite problem with vaccines and people associated with Texas Children’s Hospital are not providing both sides of the vaccines story.
I think that I am going to check out Ms. Dachel and Ms. Taylors links since people mentioned their names and Ms. Dachel provided us with links. Does anyone know if there is a way to get the number of vaccine exemptions that are issued in each state?
Evidence is that vaccines are in constant need of defense and there is Vaccine injury fund / court to compensate victims of vaccines. And if the injuries were not severe, the large amounts of individual pay outs would not be present. Law 101 – If there is not a fundamental flaw with a particular product that one knows will induce so many potential lawsuits based on severity that it will bring a company down and possibly risk the injured victim not being fairly compensated, there is no need for a compensation fund. Also, I noticed in one of your other replies that you mentioned a product insert. Law 101, unless you have to, it is totally ignorant to admit to a possible side effect, unless it is true.
And another thing you need to consider Mike. Money buys everything. Even scientific results. I know this first hand and have seen it happen in hundreds of instances. Need to be truthful, Mike. List the numbers of vaccine injuries for each of the vaccines that you are referring to. You can not tell me that every single one of those cases was reported but not severe and you can’t tell me that just because it was reported doesn’t mean it was real. Maybe a small portion were reported and later found out to be un-related totally to the vaccine. Even if someone has an underlying condition, it still counts, because without the vaccine being introduced, the injury would not have occurred. It is still a vaccine injury. I think that I am going to have some friends do some checking into your background as well, Mike. I want to see what connections you have to the medical / pharmaceutical industry.
Please stop referring to autistic people as “suffering” — as the author of this piece does ["...children suffering from autism".] Of course we expect to hear this from certain groups, but not from someone pleading about enough being enough. So you, too, drop the suffering bit. It’s disrespectful to autistic people.
The neurodiverse are a different group than our vaccine-injured children who ARE suffering and in pain. Before I treated my son for the gut bugs such as H. pylori that were plaguing him, he was angry and in tears almost every day. It’s not disrespectful to heal medical illness, while it IS disrespectful to try to “cure” God-given personality traits. There’s a difference, and the ND crowd clearly doesn’t get it.
Are you saying one cannot ascribe to autistic civil rights if one is hit by an h. Pylori bug? So ridiculous. I have had a neurodivergent family member test positive and subsequently treated for h. Pylori. Why would treating a stomach aliment make you anti-civil rights? Stop with the faulty comparisons; it’s so tiresome.
To all of those on here defending the vaccines. Sorry, but I’m just not feeling you! Not convincing me that they are as safe as you would like people to believe and this is more about defending institutions of science and medicine than defending children. Honestly, that is quite offensive to many.
I am out. This is really getting just ignorant on the part of the vaccine defenders. Like it or not, there are vaccine exemptions and alot more people are getting them. If you want to get your child vaccinated, that is your right and if you don’t you can either get an exemption from your state or find ways to where you don’t have to get the vaccines.
So once links (e.g. the Supreme Court site) are posted such that readers can compare your assertions with the truth you run away.
You have been very helpful in demonstrating why the vaccine critics are marginalized to yelling on the Net. You have nothing to support your POV.
W&N
Robert will always have Fox News.
Rachel,
There already exists a significant population of unvaccinated children available to study, so arguing it would be unethical to withhold vaccines for a study is a bit disingenuous. We could certainly study the total health outcomes of these children vs. children given vaccines according to the CDC schedule. I suspect we would see a host of immune-mediated illnesses in the vaccinated children, such as asthma, juvenile diabetes, allergies, and autoimmunity. I have Lupus, my immune system is clearly primed to react to antigens in a wonky way…in hindsight it’s no surprise that my sons’ immune systems flipped after receipt of live virus vaccines.
Carrie:
I would also like to see a study of those who have never received the vaccines being discussed on this site and see how many of those kids have actually contracted such things as polio, measles, etc. and how severe each case was, etc. I noticed that the ones arguing for the vaccines keep throwing out numbers of cases in which kids died prior to vaccines. I am curious as to how many un-vaccinated have contracted all these serious illnesses and have died since the vaccines. I would also like to see numbers of those who have been vaccinated and still came down with some of these diseases.
Ms Elsass,
I posted above the raw data from GenerationRescue’s attempt to do a study such as you suggest.
Reminder, they found:
4% unvaccinated kids had and ASD
3% vaccinated/partially vaccinated kids had an ASD.
So do you really think that vaccination reduces the odds of getting an ASD?
I hope not since the GenerationRescue data is meaningless.
There are millions of people trained in statistics that can explain why such a study gives false results and they have been explaining the error for years.
The vaccine critics just won’t accept this reality.
W&N
I don’t recall mentioning ASDs in my comments.
ASD is the example.
It demonstrates that the statisticians arguments against doing your proposed study aren’t just theory they are real.
Interesting how in your reply there is no comment about trying to understand the statistics…
W&N
Julie Gerberding, former CDC head, now working for Merck said that such a study, “…can and should be done.” I have yet to see any legitimate arguments against such a study, only the continual moaning about the ethics of it. In terms of measurable outcomes, yes, I hear that a randomized study is ideal, but since it isn’t possible, why don’t we do the study we CAN do and do it well and let the chips fall where they may? I’d stake my life that immunization, and particularly over-immunization, causes immune dysfunction in a significant subset of children. Put up or shut up.
Nice,
You gave us a five word quote that is both impossible to know what she is referring to and is without reference.
Since you explicitly refuse to ask a statisticians about how to generate accurate data, well of course you haven’t seen any legitimate arguments. You refuse to look where the answers are found.
The very, very short answer is that you get invalid results when you try to apply results from self-selected groups to the rest of the population.
But if you refuse to learn more, you will never understand why this is legitimate reason not to do your proposed experiment.
We have “put up”. The fact that your purposed experiment is absurd and will yield false results has been explained for years. You are unquestionable wrong.
The question is why do you reason to learn?
W&N
I refused nothing. Your condescending attitude is ridiculous. I have seen you on numerous sites, and I rarely even look or comment, which tells me that you spend a GREAT deal of time on this. To what end? I know that vaccine apologists are often accused of being Pharma front-men, and I know this is true in some cases, have no clue about you in particular but it’s hard to imagine someone with another full time job and family dedicating this much of their life to trying to tear down a group of people who have no monetary motivation. Since you hide behind a pseudonym, who knows?
Even with a self-selected group, if you find dramatically lower rates of immune dysfunction, wouldn’t you move heaven & earth to find out why and sort it all out? I know I would.
But that’s not where the $$ is, is it now?
You can feel free to respond, but I won’t see it, as I DO have a life outside of attacking people and believing myself scientifically superior to them with absolutely no knowledge of their level of intelligence, educational background or training, or courses of study. I sleep well at night. Goodbye.
Reuben:
Doesn’t matter how many non events there are. There are still events, therefore, further testing needs to be done. The vaccine defenders do not give the numbers of kids who are not vaccinated and don’t come down with any of the horrible diseases that are mentioned here. It would undermine their message that vaccines are completely safe and everyone should get them. Look, I run in the same circles with many of those making vaccines. As with anything else, when you are making money, you do what you can to make more. It’s about greed and with all the defending of the vaccines that people here seem to go through such great lengths to do, it further proves that point. Let the product and safety record speak for itself. Like I mentioned in another comment. Mercedes, BMS, etc do’t have to publicly defend their product. Why, it value, performance and safety speak for themselves. Yes they have their detractors out there, but still over all the world knows their names and what they stand for. Not so much with vaccines.
I am fixing to totally annihilate, this unlearned and pretty much ignorant to this issue MPH / Vaccine Drug saleswoman…….. And, with very little effort.
She is attacking a brilliant gastro-intestinal physician, that is not guilty of anything that
he has been accused of…….With the exception, of only one thing………….That’one thing, is showing concern and caring… for the children that have measles embedded in their lower bowel. Via Glaxo / Merck MMR Vaccines,
You see the single dose Measles – Mumps – Rubella When they were used in the past
in single dose vials. The vaccine insert, in the package. Said do not give within weeks, of another live virus. Strange, how that warning is totally ignored now. You see,the reason to not give with another live virus was….. They did not want, one or more of the viruses taking up residence in the body.
During the same weeks, that they were destroying Dr. Wake field here in the US in the media.
Wake Forest University was busy replicating that brilliant Dr,s work, & finding Vaccine strain Measles in the guts of Autistic children.
Rachel Cunningham, MPH, of the Immunization Project , Dr.Marie McCormick of vaccine commission, made this statement; She was down playing the findings, of the measles
that where being found in American Children’s guts.
“we do not know, that these measles that maybe being found. Are not wild strain, type measles”
Well, Dr. McCormick you may not have known then! But with the findings, of the Wake forest study you do now!!!! What are you going to do about it? Nothing! because you the head of the CDC took that revolving door into the industry with a payout of a job for 2 million a year.
The lead researcher Dr. Walker said this;
In addition, Dr. Walker noted, “of the handful of results we have in so far, all of the measles viruses are vaccine strains and none are wild measles.”
Our water bill runs $200 to $250 a month for him to run hot water over his rear end, till it is exhausted and nothing but cold water is left. He does this, I assume to deal with the pain
and discomfort of the non existent bowel disorder that according to the all so caring AAP and
useless CDC says does not exist.
The Bible says; ” there’s none so blind as those who cannot see”
I say today it is more like ; There’s none so blind, as those who are paid very well to
not see the pain and suffering of the little children. But their day is coming, for they will
have to account for all the ILL gotten gain. They received on the backs of suffering little children all in the name of the greater greed.
” there’s none so blind as those who cannot see”–very true.
Correction: the Wake Forest scientists stopped this work when they learned that Wakefield had rigged the test and all their results were wrong.
4 years later and the vaccine critics still aren’t telling the truth.
W&N
The head of the vaccine program for the UK., Dr. Peter Fletcher from yr’s past, said it looks like our worse fears may have come true on the MMR. He then said something to this sort; there are people in high places, that have everything at stake on the safety of the MMR, Money & Power & their positions in the medical community. And they are willing to do almost anything it takes to suppress, that the MMR is dangerous.
Could that include discrediting a Dr. over false allegations. That’ again is only guilty, of one thing. Having compassion for our children who are suffering. That’s food for thought !
Also, if measles on the skin itch on the out side of the body. Do they Dr, s Ped’s AAP CDC
itch on the inside??????
If they do itch, Rachel Cunningham, MPH, of the Immunization Project, that might be an agonizing feeling…to say the least.
You see, most of these children suffer in a kind of silence………Except for the agonizing screams, that come when their bowel swells shut and they cannot expel gas or pop sometime for days or weeks. Because of the measles inflammation that’s inside their gut.
These little children cannot say, why do I itch inside mommy, Daddy????? Another question,does it feels like ants or bee stings. Your answer, in the so caring world of the pharma controlled main stream medical community…. We couldn’t tell you, & we don’t care to find out. Nor do we care! or do we even give a damn.
Oh! by the way, that’s not pain you are seeing that’s bad Autistic behavior. My son was in so much pain one day, he bit the top edge of a plastic TV and took a hunk out the size of his mouth. They called from school one day, and said to me. “you need to get down here quick! the Gas X is not working this time. He is trying to break his knee backwards, by pushing down on it with his leg stretched out…. he is also trying to break the windows and all the glass in the nurses station……..please hurry! he is in major pain……….At home, when his bowel disorder that you say does not exist. Gets flared up, he crashes through sheet rock walls [with his whole body].
Again, our water bill is about $200 to $250 a month…so he can run hot water over his rear
end till it’s depleted. All just to get the help,that this Blind deaf and dumb useless main stream medical community should be delivering.
Pride is an abomination in the eyes of God,and it is fueling the mind set. To not legitimately
look, at what has happened to a generation of American kids.
You and your ilk, have become an expensive & totally useless dinosaur….that has lost it’s moral compass, and any integrity they may have once had….So before you remove the splinter from the eye of Dr. Wake field, you might as the Bible says remove the BEAM from your own eye…..The beam meaning, those standing by and turning a blind eye from the suffering of a generation of American and the children of the world for the greater Greed.
What kind of sick, self absorbed humans that are supposed to be healers…… would allow this to happen to innocent little children??? and then pretend, it’s not happening……………………… remember this the oath
“first do no harm”
Dr. Walker, is sugar coating it by saying we don’t know if the vaccine measles has caused the bowel problem…….You see, he is choosing his words very carefully. For he does not want to be attacked by the all so caring medical community. That parrot the mantra, Vaccines are safe Vaccines save lives, Vaccines are safe Vaccines save lives, Vaccines are safe Vaccines save lives,
More on the mantra later
You failed to mention that Dr. Peter Fletcher was hired by attorneys who were suing, claiming that vaccines cause autism.
You also failed to mention that his inflammatory comments are without merit.
W&N
I believe it was Joseph Goebbels, Hitlers propagandist that said
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the[ State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie], and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
The head of health and human services Kathleen Sebelius. admitted in an interview with Readers Digest
She has gone to all the mainstream media and telling them do not give the parents of Autistic children equal treatment for they are spreading misinformation……It worked, here in the land of the freedom of the press.
They are only able, to say or print the Mantra. ;
Vaccines are safe, vaccines save lives
Vaccines are safe, vaccines save lives
Vaccines are safe,vaccines save lives
Joseph Goebbels, Hitlers propagandist also said this;
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”
Vaccines are safe Vaccines save lives,
Vaccines are safe Vaccines save lives,
Vaccines are safe Vaccines save lives,
The truth, that they are afraid of is. Autism has been found in 1 percent of Children 2 percent of boys in our American children.
Vaccines in their current form and schedule, has destroyed the immune system and left devastated the health of these children. And they have financially ruined their family s.
The truth, Vaccines also cripple and kill children.
Good point.
The anti-vacc scam works by lying to people that simply lack the intellectual ability to understand concepts like “safe”, or how to measure immune function, or can follow the epidemiology of autism.
The only thing left is for the courts to figure out which people are unable and which are unwilling to tell the truth.
W&N
Marie McCormick of the vaccine commission, was at an Autism meeting and Dr. Wakefield
ask her a question not once! but several times. The question was this; Dr. McCormick if you
found measles in your own kids guts, would you be concerned? She acted like she did not hear him,I believe it was the third time he asked it. She stopped, and said [very somberly] of course I would. She then said, we just do not believe it has the ability to cause Autism.
Excuse me, Dr. McCormick a question from the dad of a very sick child that has a very bad time with his vaccine induced new variant Bowel disease. Why not treat these children’s apparent bowel problem, and see if the other symptoms of Autistic behavior subside.
Instead you ignore the 500 Lb gorilla in the room, the painful bowel problem and pretend it does not exist. These people who have done this to our children have no compassion or conscience. None!
Here is what they are afraid of; Wake forest University study found out of 82 children tested thus far having Autism 70 were found to have Vaccine strain measles in their Guts.
The lead authors words were “none so far, are found to be wild strain measles”
“We haven’t done anything to demonstrate that the measles virus is causing autism or even causing bowel disease. We have simply shown that there is measles virus in the guts of a large number of children who have regressive autism,” said Dr. Walker of Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, N.C.
A high percentage of children with autism have chronic bowel disease, which can have a direct influence on cognitive and behavioral issues associated with the condition, Dr. Walker said.
To explore the potential causes of autistic enterocolitis, the nonspecific ileocolitis with ileocolonic lymphonodular hyperplasia that plagues many of these children, Dr. Walker and colleagues have so far assayed terminal ileum biopsy tissue from 82 of 275 autistic children who had been referred to a pediatric gastroenterologist for evaluation. Eighty-five percent of the children tested, all of whom have the regressive form of autism in which an apparently normal child loses skills, have tested positive for the measles virus.
In addition, Dr. Walker noted, “of the handful of results we have in so far, all of the measles viruses are vaccine strains and none are wild measles.”
In emphasizing that the findings are preliminary, Dr. Walker noted that “there are lots of viruses in the gut and any one of them could be the cause of chronic inflammation in these kids.” While the findings do not confirm a causative link between the measles component of the measles/mumps/rubella virus suggested by a British scientist in 2002 and causing a maelstrom of accusations and protests, “if the virus from the vaccine is the cause of inflammation and chronic bowel disease in some susceptible children, that is something that needs to be known,” he said.
What they are afraid of is, what came first the chicken or the egg? in other words for you slow
to understand PHD’s the [ Bowel disorder or the Autism ]
The real 500 Lb gorilla is the fact that 4 years after the test used to “detect” the measles virus in these kids has been exposed as a fraud–and in fact negative tests were being reported as having the virus–the anti-vaccs are still tying to continue this fraud.
W&N
Hi Joe, I guess you aren’t up to date:
You wrote: “Here is what they are afraid of; Wake forest University study found out of 82 children tested thus far having Autism 70 were found to have Vaccine strain measles in their Guts. The lead authors words were “none so far, are found to be wild strain measles” ”
You are referring to the 2006 IMFAR poster presentation, “Persistent Ileal Measles Virus In A Large Cohort Of Regressive Autistic Children With Ileocolitis And Lymphonodular Hyperplasia: Revisitation Of An Earlier Study” by Walker et al. Somehow, Sally Beck, a reporter for the UK’s Daily Mail, heard about the study and published a breathless article, “Scientists fear MMR link to autism,” on May 28, 2006. The article exists online, but the Daily Mail doesn’t date-stamp their articles — so it appears forever new.
The Walker study was never published — that means, the data in the study couldn’t meet the standards for publication. On June 1, 2006, the following clarification was published by Wake Forest University: “An American scientist whose research replicates a connection published in England in 2002 between the measles virus and bowel disease in autistic children strongly warns against making the “leap” to suggesting that the measles vaccine might actually cause autism. “That is not what our research is showing,” said Stephen J. Walker, Ph.D., ”
The case against Walker’s data got even worse. Petitioners in the Hazelhurst and Cedillo cases heard in the Omnibus Autism Proceedings used Walker et al. as part of their evidence. Remember that the evidence rules for the Omnibus Proceedings are quite low — “50% and a feather” The special masters found that “the preliminary data from the Walker study, in the words of the petitioners’ own expert and co-author of that study, Dr. Hepner, is simply “not useful at this time. Thus, again in Dr. Hepner’s own words, it would not be appropriate for me to “draw any conclusions” from that data.”
So Walker himself came to realize that his theories about measles vaccine, bowel troubles, and autism really didn’t stand up, and moved on with his career.
Every human has a gastrointestinal (GI) system. Some humans have GI problems. People with autism are a subset of both “every human” and “some humans”. Therefore, it isn’t surprising that some people with autism have GI problems.
For all who question, what was said about the exchange between Dr. Wakefield and Vaccine commissions Dr. McCormick . (We have the audio) along with either her or Dr.Stratton saying
when thinking the Mic was off something sort of like [wish I could just get out of here]
Dr. McCormick & Dr. Stratton the parents feel that way a lot, after all we gave you a normal child to vaccinate…… and you gave us an Alzheimer’s patient for life.
W&N why would they stop their study, if what they found to be true. was! That’s their findings, not Dr.Wakefields. If they are not guilty of what you claim Wakefield done. They would be derelict in
their duty, to not to go on and let the chips fall where they may. If it is true, that they did stop.
It’s because they were threatened, if they don’t! [they may or will never work again]
W&N, I know it’s hard to bite the hand that feeds you. But for Christ sake and I mean that,
these are just innocent children. Can’t you find another way to make a living.
Joe, the Wake Forest study you cite was never published. Can you explain why?
If you draw a line from point A to point B meaning Autism / Vaccines
or in this case Bowel disorders. It is a career ending move, they were probably told this is over.
What part of the test to measure the virus was a fraud are you confused by?
W&N
The anti-vacc scam works by lying to people that simply lack the intellectual ability to understand concepts like “safe”, or how to measure immune function, or can follow the epidemiology of autism.
You haven’t a clue, and your bosses are not! getting their moneys worth.
I guess you call ordering someone to not find a link, science? For that is what the CDC did.
Marie McCormick of the vaccine commissions words to the Prestigious IOM
Walter Orinstien of the vaccine commission wants you to declare well these things
( speaking of Vaccines ) are pretty safe on a population basis. She later states,
what Walt wants Walt generally gets. At another time, she says for the IOM to pay very
little attention to the biological evidence. And to put all their confidence, in the large population based epidemiological studies…..
Now what she knew, was that those studies that were done in the VSD were fabricated
to come to a predetermined conclusion like the Denmark studies were.
W & N please explain how come the president tried to seal the VSD for ever! when the attempt
failed to put in the homeland security protection for the Maker of Thimerosal.
That is supposed to be their proof, that vaccines are safe and do not cause Autism.
Why seal the VSD for one? and why seal it forever? you see that was not only on the Parents of the vaccine injured minds. But apparently, on the minds of two Senators that sent President Bush two letters asking exactly that….. and more.
He the President, then decides not! to seal the VSD You see two researchers got into the VSD
for two days. In the data, it showed not 2.48 times risk that had been whittled down to 1.59 but
an alarming 11 and 27 times risk DPT vs Non Thimerosal DPT.
The following day,after that miserable and ground shaking finding the VSD was packed up and moved off of the NIH grounds. To a new home, where we the people do not have the Freedom of Information act power. It only cost, 190 million dollars. It was given with the stipulation that no outsiders can have access to the Data or they forfeit the whole 190 million.
After all that, the house appropriations committee asked to have the NIH’s NIEHS to evaluate the science that the CDC and the IOM used to come to the conclusion Vaccines do not cause Autism .
The findings were, all the big populace VSD studies were riddled with design flaws rendering them to be en effect useless. She the head of the panel said this, as bad as the studies done
here were….. they were an improvement over the others….. the two Denmark studies.
She then said to a reporter “that leaves the CDC with very little to say, that vaccines and Autism are not connected in any way.
The Dir. of the CDC was asked to defend her flagship studies, showing no link! she did not in fact she said that any further use of the VSD looking at Vaccines as a cause environmental.
would be misleading. She did not leave it at that, and this is where you know this is a cover up and not real science. She the Dir. said this shocking statement “but if you do give us more time we will do good quality studies” I assume she was saying,that all the others were of bad quality……. with that statement.
It appears the Head of the panel, and now head of the head of the NIEHS was right the Denmark studies were apparently possible fraud. Considering that the lead researcher
of the Denmark studies, is now indicted on 13 counts of wire fraud and nine counts of money laundering. And he apparently was not doing this on his own, as the indictment states he worked with others known and unknown by this grand jury.
I wonder if it’s the same people, who when contacting him from the CDC said; we are only interested in what will exonerate the CDC and vaccines. This, after they had handed him 11 million dollars to give them what they want [an out for poisoning a generation of children].
He Poul bought with the money the indictment says, a house next to the CDC whom he probably worked with, two cars, and a Harley motorcycle. And wired himself almost a million dollars. While the parents are waiting for science to help the suffering of their children the CDC who is doling out the money, is telling them the researchers we are only interested in what want em placate us or the vaccine program.
W&N you really want to talk science? You will lose, they have none. And as far as the new
found IOM committing intellectual suicide as the old did by their predetermined BS I will point back to the IOM of 2004 this was said ”
“We’ve got a dragon by the tail here,” states a committee member in the
transcript. “At the end of the line, what we know is – and I agree –
that
the more negative that presentation [the report] is, the less likely
people
are to use vaccination, immunization, and we know what the results of
that
will be. We are kind of caught in a trap. How we work our way out of
the
trap, I think, is the charge.”
You are not caught in a trap, if you find with good science and a good conscience vaccines are safe and do not cause Autism. This tells me they compromised their integrity
” the more negative that presentation [the report] is, the less likely
people are to use vaccination, immunization, and we know what the results of
that will be” So when in the valley of decision, the IOM chose to lie to the public.
to save an already failing vaccine program.
Joe has made a bunch of accusations without any underlying way of verifying is allegations:
1. Some allegations about Marie McCormick. Joe, please substantiate these allegations with citations that can be verified.
2. Something about [sic] Walter Orinstien (actually, Francis Walter A. Orenstein, MD). Joe, please substantiate these allegations with citations that can be verified.
3. Something about “the president tried to seal the VSD for ever! when the attempt
failed to put in the homeland security protection for the Maker of Thimerosal” — the president of what, who knows; Joe doesn’t bother to define VSD and so on. Joe, please substantiate these allegations with citations that can be verified.
4. Something about how the VSD (whatever that is) was a physical object that could be “moved off the NIH grounds”. Previous to this alleged move, the VSD was also subject to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) regulations, and the move prevented FOIA access to the information in the VSD. Joe, please substantiate these allegations with citations that can be verified.
I think you get the idea, Joe. You’ve made a bunch of allegations but haven’t made it possible for anybody to validate them. If you can’t provide citations then your allegations are just figments of your imagination.
5.
The following day,after that miserable and ground shaking finding the VSD was packed up and moved off of the NIH grounds. To a new home, where we the people do not have the Freedom of Information act power. It only cost, 190 million dollars. It was given with the stipulation that no outsiders can have access to the Data or they forfeit the whole 190 million.
Marie McCormick of the vaccine commissions words to the Prestigious IOM
Walter Orinstien
Are you trying to be funny?
The McCormick comments are public record. You have grossly and selectively quoted her completely changing the meaning of her statements.
There was some talk about sealing VSD after criminal actions by anti-vaccs. The VSD is still open today. And your bizarre comments about he relative risk simply demonstrates that you don’t understand high-school math. VSD data clearly shows that vaccines don’t increase the risk of autism.
The NIEHS comments are posted on-line. You have completely failed to understand the basic English meaning of the their testimony much less the statistics they are discussing.
While there is an allegation of theft against Thorsen, the data set and analysis are unaffected by the allegation and to criticize the conclusions is completely without merit.
So no, the vaccine critics are marginalized to yelling on the Net because their arguments aren’t even literate much less scientific.
W&N
Science is being made up out of thin air, and crooked researchers. All the while, we lost a generation of American children. It apparently is going to take God, and God alone to straighten this mess out. And to punish those who are responsible, for this atrocity.
With God on our side, eh Joe? And you think the science is conjured out of thin air? Or maybe you are a pharma shill posting ridiculous statements to discredit the antivax movement? Well it is working.
You are basically correct.
The anti-vaccs “science” is so absurd that US Civil courts have characterized them as lying to get money.
Too bad none of the anti-vaccs have the integrity to post these rulings.
W&N
Marie McCormick had said those things at the IOM meeting, the transcripts prove it.
Interesting thing is, we do not have the FOIA act power in the IOM. Someone leaked
the minutes out. I assume, because they did not like being told how they were going
to rule…. before they even evaluated the Science. The IOM never denied, the minutes
were genuine.
The allegations concerning the Dir. of the Vaccine program Walter A. Orenstein
was just that, words from McCormick of the vaccine commission on how the Dir.
would like them to rule. Please notice one thing, that is very important here. The
Dir.asked the IOM to rule, that these things are pretty safe on a population basis.
I believe that is what the CDC has been saying for years, the CDC has always said
“we cannot rule out, that this may be happening… to a subset group of children”
That’s fence setting in it’s highest form. At one point, they can jump off on either side of
this issue.
I think that is the problem at hand, some children just cannot dump Mercury because
they have low Glutathione and the CDC is not willing to identify them to protect them.
Which is a huge mistake,considering 3.2 to 5 million dollars for something that could
have and should have been prevented. [ For each child effected ]
Yale University study, revealed how much this mistake cost the taxpayers 200
to 400 Billion dollars EVERY YEAR! For the life time care cost of this medical
mistake.
No wonder, no one wants to own this [ it could single handedly break the US. ]
I am surprised you knew nothing, about the president G W trying to seal the Vaccine
Safety Data Link AKA VSD for ever.
That also is strange, considering that is their proof that vaccines are safe and do not cause Autism. Why would you seal your very evidence? Proving vaccine safety????
Two Senators wrote Pres. GW one of the Senators words was “why are you sealing them
for one, and why are you trying to seal them forever”? he then said ” To be frank, it
is as though you first robbed the bank and are now attempting to hide the evidence of the
harm”
The senators then ask the president, to reveal any contacts he or his staff had with any one discussing the protective order for the manufacturer and patient holder Lilly.
You see the President had two people working at the white house,from lilly the patient holder of Thimerosal.
When Congressman Burton asked Congressman Army why did you do it dick? Meaning inserting in the homeland security bill the protection for Lilly . His reply was No! the white house told me to do it.
The two Senators,Patrick Leahy & John Conyers wrote official letters to the president asking why he was sealing the VSD ? And even more on their minds, was why was he wanting to seal them forever. Why would seal, the very proof that Vaccines are safe and don’t cause Autism?
You wouldn’t, however you would want to seal 11 and 27 times risk the amount the two researchers found in the VSD. For you who seem to be challenged, and do not know
what VSD is…..[ Vaccine Safety Data link ]
PRESS RELEASE
Congressman John Conyers, Jr.
Fourteenth District, Michigan
Ranking Member, Committee on the Judiciary
Dean, Congressional Black Caucus
————————————————————————————————————
FOR RELEASE: November 27, 2002 CONTACT: Perry Apelbaum
/Michone Johnson (202) 225-6906
Conyers Criticizes Bush Administration Decision to Seal Thimerosal Records
Representative John Conyers, Jr., the Ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary
Committee, today issued the following letter to Attorney General John Aschcroft and
HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson regarding their decision to seal records relating to
potential links between thimerosal and autism and other neurological disorders in
children:
November 27, 2002
The Honorable John D. Ashcroft
Attorney General of the United States
U.S. Department of Justice
10th and Constitution Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20530
The Honorable Tommy G. Thompson
Secretary of Health and Human Services
Department of Health and Human Services
200 Independence Avenue, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20201
Dear General Ashcroft and Secretary Thompson:
The other Senators letter, was similar.
.
Care to comment on that, Rachel?
How is this constant denial of evidence and badly designed research helping us mere mortals, witnesses to the harm done, finally put this matter to rest? Enough will be enough when the research is done right.
Continuing to misquote after of years of correcting a mistake just makes the anti-vaccs look dishonest.
But tell the truth, you never bothered to actually read the entire transcript from Dr. McCormick did you?
Anyway, at this point anyone that has made it through middle-school should be able to figure out that the 11 or 27 fold increase in risk is false.
W&N
«But tell the truth, you never bothered to actually read the entire transcript from Dr. McCormick did you?»
Like most doctors no, not exactly entirely, what’s your point?
Mine is that when you seal records it is because there is something to hide, everyone who has made it through middle school is able to figure this out…
Come on….reading the transcript is how a person knows if Joe is correctly representing what was said.
The VSD wasn’t sealed, how to access it is right on the CDC website.
And the claimed 11 to 27 fold increase in risk is still false.
The real point is that when one runs a business based on falsehoods like the sealing of VSD, fictional statistics, and then charge parents $10,000 per month to treat their kids based on this nonsense, then one loses one’s medical license and often ends up in court.
Have you read these cases?
W&N
The Emperor ( CDC ) never! had any clothes.
1st they say, if you do not like the findings on your child’s NVICP case you have the right to sue the manufacturer.
Next the law makers under the disguise of tort reform, create a 250,000 cap all the while knowing it cost that much to bring forth a vaccine suit in state court.
Thus achieving their goal of a parent not being able to get an attorney to take these cases.
When they find they have no!!!!! science to defend in a court of law, the Supreme Court rules that the parents cannot sue the Manufacturer. For even those Idiots know, you cannot win with useless, and worse than useless that was done in Denmark.
Case in point ;
House Appropriations Committee asked the NIH to evaluate the CDC ‘s vaccines as a cause for Autism science,the NIH charged the NEIHS to do the task. The head of the NIEHS ‘s panel said in a report to Congress that the science was so riddled full of design flaws that it rendered them to be en effect useless.
The CDC’s Dir. was asked to defend her useless studies by a Congressional comittee,she did not! in fact she agreed to the findings. Even to the point, that she the CDC Dir. said
[ "any further use of the VSD looking at vaccines as a cause for Autism environmental would be misleading" ]
She the Dir said,
[ "that they would not be using the VSD any more for looking for a environmental cause for Autism" ]
If some one reading this says, that you are just interpreting
what she said wrong . The CDC Dir.,set it in stone. The fact
that she had been using junk studies all along, with the following
statement.
That makes it Dam clear! that the Emperor [ the CDC ] had no clothes all along.
She the Dir. then said;
“but if you do give us more time, we will do good quality studies”
The NIEHS panel head said this, which says it all.
["that leaves the CDC with very little to say, that Vaccines and Autism are not connected in any way"]
The NIEHS panels head also said this;
[" as bad as the studies that were done in the VSD were, they
were an improvement over the other two [ the two Denmark studies "]
Since this was years before the indictment, of the author of the Denmark studies,it appears
[ the NIEHS panels head researcher, knows fraud when she sees it ]
Also, even knowing all this. That the CDC had only junk studies, That’s, fact!!! according to the NIH’s NIEHS findings.
The special masters of the Vaccine compensation program,
was set to rule on the Autism vaccine test cases.
The special masters said ;
["that the science was so over whelming against the parents, they had no choice but to rule how they ruled... against the parents" ]
What science!!!!!!!!!!!!! special masters Hastings would that be??
[the en effect useless or the worse than useless that was done by a Danish researcher that is now being indicted for 13 counts of wire fraud and 9 counts of money laundering]
Like I said, you cannot win in a real court….. [with useless and worth than useless as a defense]………So, you get the Supreme court to take away a childs due process.
Now that’s, Democracy at it’s best!
Destroy a child’s brain, and then deny them the very remedy that Congress created for the protection of the industry.
You talk about having your cake, and eating it to.
This is the greatest scandal, in American history.
And the most cruel, that shows how low the Senators, & Congressman, and Presidents and Media people can go. Oh! I forgot the Pharma co’s.
Fact, the national vaccine compensation program was supposed to be a non confrontational & no fault system fair and generous to the parents.
Congressman Dan Burton said at a vaccine compensation hearing this;
[ " You are not doing! the spirit of the law, we including myself who created the law... meant if you even think a child's been harmed!!! then you pay them, and you pay them very well " ]
Everything they heard, (speaking of the Vaccine compensation program Dir. that was representing the program) that day. Went in one ear, and out of the other.
It is corrupted to it’s core,the people in charge ………. the special masters, are paid for life. After judging only a few cases a year.
What a Gig! And the Dir. of the CDC after misleading the public,
is now is employed by the very industry that profited from her deceiving the American public.
For her deceit, she was rewarded with a 2 million a year contract with Merck ….. I recently found out this,
Medco the company that we get 440 diapers a month from a tax payers paid program [ is owned by Merck ].( End User License: Merck-Medco Managed Care, L.L.C. )
The perfect crime, destroy neurologically a child to a point they are now 21 yr’s old and still in diapers with their mandated tax payer vaccine program.
And make a cool billion doing so, and then sell the government diapers and wet wipes. [ for the life of the child ].
Our elected representatives, wonder why we are trillions in debt. Here’s the answer [they are paying it out, to their constituents,]
[ the pharmaceutical co's ]
For the damage!!! they done, to our American children…..
Ps the big question here that should be on every bodys minds, should be if Congress finds an agency committing something
as close to treason as this.
Why did they not act? to protect the American children????
And by not acting, they are responsible for the prolonging of
the Autism [Pandemic] not Epidemic……..costing Trillions of
dollars for the life long care cost.
The head of the IACC Thomas Insel, said this after yr’s of denial that the increase in Autism is even real.
It is appearing the increase cannot be explained away. He then said this,
“how we prepare a Nation for 1 million Adults that may need significant amounts of services. They are working their way through system like a wave”…. He left out the Key word [ TIDAL ] WAVE
Case in point: you are still grossly miss-resenting the basic English meaning of the testimony. Maybe that is why you don’t provide a link….and you your obvious falsehoods about suing aren’t any better.
Are you trying to demonstrate that the anti-vaccs get everything wrong?
W&N
Here is proof, your precious vaccines are useless BS It is appearing you have two possibility’s
here, either the vaccines are useless, or they cause the very virus they are intended to control.
Either of which, proves. Vaccines are a at best a crap shoot and Voodoo science.
“Study: Whooping cough vaccination fades in 3 years”.
Buried deep in this “study” was the following revelation .. which in my humble opinion should have been the title:
“80% of children who developed whooping cough were fully vaccinated’.
—————————————————————————–
‘Marin County has a reputation for anti-vaccine sentiment, and Witt said that when he started the study he expected to see the illness concentrated in unvaccinated people. But more than 80 percent of the children who developed whooping cough in Witt’s study were fully vaccinated.”
It appears the non vaccinated children, were better protected. Probably because they have not had their immune system compromised with vaccines.
In another study, children who were Vaccinated for flu were more likely to be hospitalized later on in life than their non flu vaccinated peers .
Vaccines have become a Joke on the American people, a cruel Joke.
Enriching the Pharmaceutical Co’s with the blood of American children.
Judgement day, will be very interesting. To say the least…..
The only proof here is that you are unable or unwilling to do middle-school math.
It is for very good reasons that everything you have posted here is rejected by society–the problem is entirely your arguments.
W&N
Freedom of Information act CDC email
“this was not rocket science, this was ninth grade math”
He is referring to the fact, that those responsible for vaccine safety could not perform the simple math it would have taken to protect our American children.
Here is another person, saying about the same thing Dr. Maurice Hilleman Mercks own
saying this in a letter to the head of Merck.
“on the next vaccine schedule the children will be getting 87 times what the EPA considers safe, and I am concerned. this is not daily doses as such, this is Bolus doses given all at once at one point in time. when viewed in this manner it appears rather large”.
Dr. Hilleman died with a clean conscience……
Just recently Dr. OZ learned what happens when you mess with their money, he was saying that apple juice contained up to 30 parts per billion of arsenic.
That is almost laughable, considering a child in the 90′s may receive up to 9 vaccines all
on one day. 7 of which may contain the Mercury from the vaccine preservative Thimerosal.
When one does the simple math, that those in vaccine safety were not able to perform.
One finds a child playing AAP CDC vaccine catch up, the mercury adds up to in ppb
32,500 [ and all given at one point in time ].
Considering 200 ppb is considered Liquid Hazardous Waste, when one does do the
simple math. One can only come to one conclusion, they poisoned the hell out of the
children. [ with 160 times what the EPA considers as Liquid Hazardous Waste]
1st, arsenic is much less toxic than mercury.
2nd, when I went to school, 32,500 ppb was tons more than 30 ppb.
So showing concern, for 30 ppb is laughable, and disgraceful… when one will not raise a red flag at 35,500 ppb on one day at one point in time.
Now lets put that into perspective, 30 ppg ingested in apple juice.
32,500 ppb injected from a safe vaccine program.
Hey Joe,
Too bad you didn’t post the entire memo by Dr. Maurice Hilleman.
I guess you didn’t want readers to see how the anti-vaccs have grossly edited his comments–completely changing the meaning of the memo. They have only had 20 years to get the facts correct….
And I suppose there is no chance you will actually check with toxicologists to see how absurd your comments on mercury are.
Good news: courts care enough to listen to toxicologists and it looks like the antis are in big legal trouble.
W&N
W & N your right, I left out the part where he states the FDA would be useless when considering his concerns…
The memo was written by (then) senior Merck Vice-President, Maurice Hilleman, to Dr. Gordon Douglas (then) head of Merck’s vaccine division, and now a consultant for the
Vaccine Research Center at the National Institutes of Health.
In 1991 regulators in several countries had raised concerns about the safety of thimerosal
- a preservative developed by Eli Lilly.
In Sweden the chemical was being removed from vaccines. [Noting the concern of Swedish regulators, Hilleman wrote:]
=========================================================================
“It is reasonable to conclude” that it should be eliminated where possible, he said, “especially where use in infants and young children is anticipated.”
My words,One really needs to be questioning the decision by the CDC Dir. to allow Thimerosal any where near a pregnant woman. Let alone the Dir of the CDC pushing
it on expectant mothers by strongly recommending a flu shot containing Thimerosal.
Especially when the MSDS says [ for you challenged out there I will define MSDS
Manufacturer Safety Data Sheet..... A sheet containing Data of the characteristics
of their product ]
The MSDS warns that Pregnant women should never be exposed to Thimerosal
for it can cross the ( here’s another hard one for you )……….BBB defined meaning
Blood Brain Barrier . and can cause mild to severe mental retardation.
in other words a mixed bag of symptoms, sort of like ADD ADHD Speech Delay being
mild Autism Bi Polar being severe.
At the famous simpson wood meeting they were sending a warning ” you would never want to go any earlier with it ( meaning the Thimerosal ) or you would certainly get more out comes.
Meaning more ADD ADHD Speech Delay being mild …….. Autism Bi Polar being severe
=========================================================================
By contrast, Hillman noted: “the U.S. Food and Drug Administration … does not have this concern for thimerosal.”
=========================================================================
Ps since a whistle blower took the memo from Merck, one would be hard pressed to deny the
the fact. it contained bad news for the CDC’s vaccine program.
Dr. Hilleman said this;
“The key issue is whether thimerosal, in the amount given with the vaccine, does or does
not constitute a safety hazard,” the memo said. “However, perception of hazard may be equally important.”
A child in the 90′s, that played AAP CDC catch up on vaccines some received 9 vaccines
W / 7 of them containing the Thimerosal equaling 32,500 ppb of mercury. Doing the math
you accused me of not being able to do, that is 160 times the amount that the EPA sets for Liquid Hazardous Waste.
I believe that 160 times, the amount the EPA sets for LHW ……..is a pretty strong perception.
Merck officials would not discuss the contents of the memo, citing pending litigation.
Joe,
You still didn’t post the actual memo.
And you didn’t include the relevant comments like how the concerns are based on perceptions about mercury rather than any actual data that the thimersoal in vaccines is hazardous.
And thimerosal MSDS’s are posted on-line. I couldn’t find a single one that has any statement about not exposing pregnant women to thimerosal. Do you have an example to support your assertion?
Unsurprisingly, you don’t quote any toxicologists to support your statements about the toxicity of thimerosal. Your errors have been corrected over and over….
mmmm, learnt a lot from the writer’s article. Thanks!
Here is why enough is not enough, because the people that are defending the vaccine program and are attacking the parents maybe most are crooks using other peoples identities.
That’s right, they are stealing others identities while they do the dirty deeds for the Pharma co’s
putting out little fires.
The “skeptic” operation is in deep trouble – and they did it to themselves.
The author of this article pointing out, for some time, how the so-called “skeptics” (pseudo-skeptics) prefer anonymity, lashing out nastily from a hidden position, usually using a fake internet identity.
I suspected, quite correctly, as it turns out, now, that there were good reasons for that secrecy. I also knew, from reading their recruiting literature, that the central unit sought out society’s flotsam, ne’er-do-wells, weirdos, and rejects.
But last week all that was topped after I was sent two articles from the Broward County Sun Sentinel – one called “Celebrated South Florida artist Jose Alvarez accused of identity theft” and the other ‘”The Amazing’ Randi, renowned supernatural investigator, immersed in mystery about partner’s alleged ID theft.”
What those articles were telling me was that I had miscalculated. I had thought that all those creepy “skeptics” were using fake internet names to cover up their real identities. But, that’s not true. At least some of them (and maybe ALL of them?), according to official reports, were using “fake” names in real life.
Oh my…
Those two Broward county articles were informing the world that the world’s top skeptic, the self-styled “Amazing Randi,” had a long time live-in lover who everyone THOUGHT was named Jose Luis Alvarez, but US Federal Agents had determined otherwise – and arrested “what’s-his-name” on various “Identity Theft” federal criminal counts. Alvarez, or whomever he really is, is on the James Randi Educational Foundation Board of Directors.
THAT certainly trumps a fake internet ID. The feds, right there on the spot, handcuffed “what’s-his-name,” and dragged him off to the poky.
A Federal Grand Jury had indicted “what’s-his-name.”
And then the plot thickened…
Time for a laugh…
Get this – Randi’s group then began a letter-writing campaign asking that “what’s-his-name” be let out on bail using the excuse (get ready) that “what’s-his-name” was doing good work as a “skeptic” exposing hoaxes and frauds. (insert belly-laugh here). A bail hearing was set for September 21st, 2011.
Well, Florida-based Federal Judges aren’t as dumb as James Randi thinks they are I guess. Because the Judge rescheduled the bail hearing to October 4th, 2011, giving Federal Agents time, I think, to personally question some of those letter writers, asking probably every one of them to produce LEGITIMATE identification, themselves. And, I suspect, to inquire what THEIR role in the “Jose Luis Alvarez” hoax might be.
As it turns out “James Randi” isn’t really “James Randi, but “Randall James Hamilton Zwinge.”
Oh my, my…
What next? I suspect there is a very large, expanded, federal investigation going on.
Gee, I wonder how that could have happened?
Stay tuned.
W & N AnnieG are they coming to get you too?Or do you really, worship vaccines and their
makers?
It looks like you and your Ilk is in trouble W & N, some of you are pretending to assist the government all the while someone is paying the bill for services rendered. Could it be someone you defend vigorously like Vaccine makers & drug co’s?
“Assisting Government” – The New Legal Argument for Nutbags…
Opinion by Consumer Advocate Tim Bolen
Wednesday, March 30th, 2011
I simply cannot get over the fact that Stephen Barrett actually found attorneys who would write legal papers demanding that he, Barrett, be declared the Czar/God of US health care and Dismiss the Doctor’s Data v Barrett, et al, case on the basis that Stephen Barrett, in his total nutbag role, is “assisting government.” Wow!
Just think – a whole new legal concept, that when employed, would change the face of law as we know it.
I guess, under that legal argument, it is too bad that Adolph Hitler didn’t know Stephen Barrett and his legal team. For, if he did, way back then, just think, instead of Adolph and Eva Braun committing double suicide in their Berlin bunker, they could have, simply, run for the American lines, hands raised, screaming “we were assisting government, we were assisting government, we were assisting government, we were assisting government…”
Read the whole article and more about these Nut Bags, that either worship vaccines or are just paid do attack parents that are already dealing with the Hell of vaccine induced Autism.
http://www.bolenreport.com/feature_articles/Doctor's-Data-v-Barrett/assisting%20government.htm
Does this W & N describe what you are doing, or do you just worship vaccines?
An NIH study by Researcher Thomas Burbacher, his findings on baby primates was “this that the vaccineal mercury Thimerosal crosses the BBB easier than does the fish mercury”. “After it Thimerosal enters the brain, it then turns into inorganic mercury by two and a half times that as does the fish mercury.
The latest findings on the children succumbing to Autism behavior is, that this is children
with a Mitochondria problem that have low glutathione that cannot dump heavy metals.
What the parents of effected children have always told the CDC, the same CDC that ignored them and all their concerns. It appears the parents were right,for all that it’s worth.
Two of the most damaging compounds that is the most damaging to the Mitochondria, are both in vaccines. Number one is Inorganic mercury, Thimerosal crosses the BBB and then
it turns into Inorganic mercury. [ The most damaging to the Mitochondria ]
Number two is MSG which is also in vaccines for children. Considering the fact it MSG is the second most deadliest to the mitochondria,the FDA should take into consideration the fact that most of all fast food and Chinese foods have MSG in them. So it appears, the FDA set up the perfect storm. For the neurological destruction of our American children.
At a meeting of 6 teams of Mitochondria researchers,it was revealed that the concern of most attending the meeting was that the Vaccines were the stress-er that stretched the limits of the mitochondria……. thus causing the child to be pushed over the edge,and into the Autistic behavior we are seeing. That is so prevalent in today’s kids .
They were also so warned, that it was not rare at all. In fact 1 in 50 might have the nuclear DNA for the Mitochondria weakness. And being seen in that light, the possibility’s for our children succumbing to Autism then are staggering.
The teams warned the CDC at that meeting, do something Now! or we will turn over what we have found to the public.
We are sending our children to fight, and and some times die. For this countries freedoms, including the freedom of the press……….A press that cannot, or will not, for what ever reason
tell the truth of what has happened to a generation of American children.
The VSD wasn’t sealed, only because then Pres. Bush was told by Senators that they wanted any and all communications between anybody who would want this information kept from the public ,and him and his staff.
C span televised the hearings on Autism,
in the hearing someone from our health agencies hung his head [ as he should ] and said Congressman we found 11 times risk.
Question for you,why was it after the 11 and 27 times risk was found that the VSD was rooted up and moved of the grounds of the NIH? and put into the hands of a non govern-
mental Company. With the tax payers paying a bill for 190 million dollars. With a CDC stipulation that no outsiders ever gain access
to the Data ever. That is about as sealed as one can get.
Another question; Why should anyone (researcher or public citizen) have to pay for access,
to a public paid data base?that is a data base of the public.
That’s the reason this nation is so sick and health care cost so much, because of the deceiving of the public.
What ! Merck, Eli lilly, GSK, doesn’t pay for week ends any more?
It’s getting awful lonely here, where is the mercury lovers????
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